I'm a student pilot and I fly out of Chandler, AZ. I thought that I
would post this accident because I have read reports posted by others,
and I always find them valuable as a reminder of safety. This plane is
a rental at my FBO and I have flown it quite a few times, so that makes
this extra scary. Nobody knows what the pilot was doing outside of the
plane. The plane is now sitting in the hangar back in Chandler. I
talked to a few of the instructors today about it.. nobody wants to fly
the plane, and the owner is planning to sell it.


IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 2157H Make/Model: C172 Description: 172, P172,
R172, Skyhawk, Hawk
Date: 01/18/2005 Time: 0700

Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N
Missing: N
Damage: None

LOCATION
City: CASA GRANDE State: AZ Country: US

DESCRIPTION
ACFT WAS FOUND IDLING AT THE DEPARTURE END OF THE AIRPORT, THE PILOT
WAS
STRUCK BY THE PROP AND FATALLY INJURED, CASA GRANDE, AZ

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
# Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:

WEATHER: NOT REPORTED


OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Standing Operation: General
Aviation

Departed: CASA GRANDE, AZ Dep Date: 01/18/2005 Dep.
Time:
Destination: CHANDLER, AZ Flt Plan: Wx
Briefing:
Last Radio Cont:
Last Clearance:

FAA FSDO: SCOTTSDALE, AZ (WP07) Entry date:
01/21/2005

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm a student pilot and I fly out of Chandler, AZ. I thought that I
> would post this accident because I have read reports posted by others,
> and I always find them valuable as a reminder of safety. This plane is
> a rental at my FBO and I have flown it quite a few times, so that makes
> this extra scary. Nobody knows what the pilot was doing outside of the
> plane. The plane is now sitting in the hangar back in Chandler. I
> talked to a few of the instructors today about it.. nobody wants to fly
> the plane, and the owner is planning to sell it.
>

Mike,

Who's 172 is/was this? Chandler Air Service?

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ also...

well.. either it was intentional... or he got out to "fix something", did
not shut down the engine and walked into the spinning prop.. it has happened
more than once...
saw the oil check door pop open?
something banging outside.. like the passengers seat belt against the
fuselage in the prop blast? normally those don't make too much noise until
take off.

BT

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm a student pilot and I fly out of Chandler, AZ. I thought that I
> would post this accident because I have read reports posted by others,
> and I always find them valuable as a reminder of safety. This plane is
> a rental at my FBO and I have flown it quite a few times, so that makes
> this extra scary. Nobody knows what the pilot was doing outside of the
> plane. The plane is now sitting in the hangar back in Chandler. I
> talked to a few of the instructors today about it.. nobody wants to fly
> the plane, and the owner is planning to sell it.
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 2157H Make/Model: C172 Description: 172, P172,
> R172, Skyhawk, Hawk
> Date: 01/18/2005 Time: 0700
>
> Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N
> Missing: N
> Damage: None
>
> LOCATION
> City: CASA GRANDE State: AZ Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> ACFT WAS FOUND IDLING AT THE DEPARTURE END OF THE AIRPORT, THE PILOT
> WAS
> STRUCK BY THE PROP AND FATALLY INJURED, CASA GRANDE, AZ
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
>
> WEATHER: NOT REPORTED
>
>
> OTHER DATA
> Activity: Pleasure Phase: Standing Operation: General
> Aviation
>
> Departed: CASA GRANDE, AZ Dep Date: 01/18/2005 Dep.
> Time:
> Destination: CHANDLER, AZ Flt Plan: Wx
> Briefing:
> Last Radio Cont:
> Last Clearance:
>
> FAA FSDO: SCOTTSDALE, AZ (WP07) Entry date:
> 01/21/2005
>

The plane was with Angel Air out of Stellar. The pilot was a renter.

The plane was based out of Stellar with Angel Air. The pilot was a
renter.

I think this is why they teach us never to use the brake lock, for anything.
Instead they tell us to stand on the brakes during run up. You learn real
quick not to follow anyone too close when in line for take off and playing
with charts because you can get distracted and start moving but not notice
it.
"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:zdHId.8264$ry.5436@fed1read05...
> well.. either it was intentional... or he got out to "fix something", did
> not shut down the engine and walked into the spinning prop.. it has
happened
> more than once...
> saw the oil check door pop open?
> something banging outside.. like the passengers seat belt against the
> fuselage in the prop blast? normally those don't make too much noise until
> take off.
>
> BT
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > I'm a student pilot and I fly out of Chandler, AZ. I thought that I
> > would post this accident because I have read reports posted by others,
> > and I always find them valuable as a reminder of safety. This plane is
> > a rental at my FBO and I have flown it quite a few times, so that makes
> > this extra scary. Nobody knows what the pilot was doing outside of the
> > plane. The plane is now sitting in the hangar back in Chandler. I
> > talked to a few of the instructors today about it.. nobody wants to fly
> > the plane, and the owner is planning to sell it.
> >
> >
> > IDENTIFICATION
> > Regis#: 2157H Make/Model: C172 Description: 172, P172,
> > R172, Skyhawk, Hawk
> > Date: 01/18/2005 Time: 0700
> >
> > Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N
> > Missing: N
> > Damage: None
> >
> > LOCATION
> > City: CASA GRANDE State: AZ Country: US
> >
> > DESCRIPTION
> > ACFT WAS FOUND IDLING AT THE DEPARTURE END OF THE AIRPORT, THE PILOT
> > WAS
> > STRUCK BY THE PROP AND FATALLY INJURED, CASA GRANDE, AZ
> >
> > INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
> > # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> > Unk:
> > # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> > Unk:
> > # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> > Unk:
> >
> > WEATHER: NOT REPORTED
> >
> >
> > OTHER DATA
> > Activity: Pleasure Phase: Standing Operation: General
> > Aviation
> >
> > Departed: CASA GRANDE, AZ Dep Date: 01/18/2005 Dep.
> > Time:
> > Destination: CHANDLER, AZ Flt Plan: Wx
> > Briefing:
> > Last Radio Cont:
> > Last Clearance:
> >
> > FAA FSDO: SCOTTSDALE, AZ (WP07) Entry date:
> > 01/21/2005
> >
>
>




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"Slick" > wrote in message ...
> I think this is why they teach us never to use the brake lock, for
anything.
> Instead they tell us to stand on the brakes during run up. You learn real
> quick not to follow anyone too close when in line for take off and playing
> with charts because you can get distracted and start moving but not notice
> it.

What does the parking brake have to do with the pilot walking into the prop?
Getting anywhere near the front of an airplane with a running engine is
something you just don't do.
I'm figuring he did one of two things. It was cold out, so he thought he
would start it first, let the engine idle and warm up while he finished the
walk-around, or he forgot to pull wheel chocks.
There was a prop strike story not too long ago, a pilot left the engine
running at the FBO. He was either picking up or dropping off a young child.
He watched the child walk right into the prop. The moral here is, if anyone
is going to be near the front of the plane, shut it down.

My take on this, is that the engine should be shut down if anyone is
exiting the airplane for any reason. I think that "knowing" that the
prop is there isn't enough. People get distracted, hurried, etc.

This reminds me of a time when I was a kid and watched a friend of mine
stick his fingers into the prop swath of a model airplane. The prop cut
his finger to the bone. I asked him what happened, and he said "I guess
I just forgot it was there because I couldn't see it, and then just
reached in to adjust the idle screw"

> What does the parking brake have to do with the pilot walking into the
> prop?
> Getting anywhere near the front of an airplane with a running engine is
> something you just don't do.
> I'm figuring he did one of two things. It was cold out, so he thought he
> would start it first, let the engine idle and warm up while he finished
> the
> walk-around, or he forgot to pull wheel chocks.

he had already taxied to the departure end, it was in the original posting..
BT

I always thought the paint on the prop tips was for decoration until my A&P
had me repaint them. It's there to make the tips visible when they're
spinning.

mike regish

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> This reminds me of a time when I was a kid and watched a friend of mine
> stick his fingers into the prop swath of a model airplane. The prop cut
> his finger to the bone. I asked him what happened, and he said "I guess
> I just forgot it was there because I couldn't see it, and then just
> reached in to adjust the idle screw"
>

The painted tips make the prop barely visible for day operation in my
opinion. The accident happened at night... not sure how visible the
prop is at night.

I got to thinking, and I just checked my solo certificate - that was
the plane that I soloed last month.

My take is the same - shut it down before anyone gets in or out. And
I've seen the model airplane thing more than once.

However, a discussion here some years ago drew a lot of posts from
people who get in and out all the time with the engine running. Their
arguments seemed sound but....

I concluded that for me, I will always shut it down. If you are
involved in an operation where you do it routinely and you've worked out
some reasonable procedures, go ahead. But for me, any reason I will
have for someone to get in or out is an exception, and that's when there
is a strong likehood of screwing up.

wrote:
> My take on this, is that the engine should be shut down if anyone is
> exiting the airplane for any reason. I think that "knowing" that the
> prop is there isn't enough. People get distracted, hurried, etc.
>
> This reminds me of a time when I was a kid and watched a friend of mine
> stick his fingers into the prop swath of a model airplane. The prop cut
> his finger to the bone. I asked him what happened, and he said "I guess
> I just forgot it was there because I couldn't see it, and then just
> reached in to adjust the idle screw"
>

i've been taught to never use the aircraft parking-brake since they
have a bad habit of getting hung-up. seems the extention of that is
never get out of the pilot seat with the fan on. i do know how easy it
is to get preoccupied with some thought or another and do something
dumb.

dan

I tend to approach this problem from a skydiver's perspective: always
approach the plane from the rear. If you need to do anything further
ahead than the door, shut it down.

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:cuPId.8293$ry.1085@fed1read05...
>
> > What does the parking brake have to do with the pilot walking into the
> > prop?
> > Getting anywhere near the front of an airplane with a running engine is
> > something you just don't do.
> > I'm figuring he did one of two things. It was cold out, so he thought he
> > would start it first, let the engine idle and warm up while he finished
> > the
> > walk-around, or he forgot to pull wheel chocks.
>
> he had already taxied to the departure end, it was in the original
posting..
> BT
>
>
Oh, so maybe it was like this, pilot taxis to run-up area, sees something
amiss. Sets parking brake, gets out of plane (stupid) and stands in front of
plane with his back turned to wave at a buddy? It's irrelevant. Start a new
thread about parking brake use.

Barely visible is still better than invisible. And the color and pattern you
use could make a difference.

mike regish

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> The painted tips make the prop barely visible for day operation in my
> opinion. The accident happened at night... not sure how visible the
> prop is at night.
>
> I got to thinking, and I just checked my solo certificate - that was
> the plane that I soloed last month.
>

"Mike W." wrote:
>
> The moral here is, if anyone
> is going to be near the front of the plane, shut it down.

I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the prop, even if
I think they don't intend to do so. It's one thing I think I may be overly
cautious about (I always shout "clear", too, even if I'm sure there's no-one
around).

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

wrote:
> The painted tips make the prop barely visible for day operation in my
> opinion. The accident happened at night... not sure how visible the
> prop is at night.
>

The back of every prop I have ever seen is painted black. Presumably
to not be a distraction to the pilot while flying. Therefore the prop
disc would not be visible from the back. A 172 with the high wing
makes stumbling into the prop while exiting the plane fairly easy. At
least easier than a low wing. I have exited low wing planes with the
engine running on a few occasions and felt safe. Of course I never
walked past the trailing edge of the wing. Would not attempt this on a
hi wing tho.....

j

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...

> I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the prop,
even if
> I think they don't intend to do so. It's one thing I think I may be overly
> cautious about (I always shout "clear", too, even if I'm sure there's
no-one
> around).
>
> George Patterson
> The desire for safety stands against every great and noble
enterprise.

It's really hard to overkill safety. After flying a while, you may think to
yourself 'it's really silly to shut down the engine everytime someone gets
in or out of the plane, I'm careful'. But you never know when that one
little step you take will make a difference and avoid a tragedy.

In Canada it's illegal to leave an airplane running with
nobody at the controls, though we see cropsprayers doing it. The only
exception is for handpropping, and that requires that the airplane be
secured against any possible movement.
Besides that, we regularly hear of folks walking into props,
even with someone at the controls. A fella and his wife were taxiing
out in their Cardinal when she decided she had to pee (sound familiar?)
and so he returned to the ramp and kept the engine running while she
got out and promptly walked thru the prop. End of wife. Is the starting
procedure really THAT much hassle that we can't pull the mixture and
restart a few minutes later??!

Dan

> disc would not be visible from the back. A 172 with the high wing
> makes stumbling into the prop while exiting the plane fairly easy. At
> least easier than a low wing.

Say What???

You climb out of a 172 and the door is between you and the whirly thing.
Close the door and the wing strut is between you and the whirly thing. You
are talking about the "Cessna 172," right? You couldn't "stumble into the
prop while exiting" even if you were totally s###-faced, and three times
over the legal limit.

My personal rule is that I would never leave the engine running and not be
at the controls. Now, if I am flying with another pilot, either of us can
get out with the engine running and if PIC is getting out, we have a routine
for passing control of the aircraft that we have briefed. I have pilot
friends that will run up to hand me something or say something and I have no
problem with that, although I am still watching what they are doing and
anticipating a brain fart. If I don't know the person approaching my
aircraft, or know the person but they aren't a pilot,...engine is off. Just
my own personal comfort zone there.

Also, if I'm shutting it down in a hurry, it's with the mag switches not the
mixture.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> The plane was with Angel Air out of Stellar. The pilot was a renter.

That's a damn shame. AA has a nice facility and their planes look to be in
good shape too. I actually took my Discovery Flight with one of their CFIs
(I belive her name was Jelica) but decided to do my training over at
Chandler Muni instead.

I've been meaning to pop in there and see the new digs and talk to them
about possibly getting checked out for renting.

Regards,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:49:00 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> wrote in >::

>I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the prop, even if
>I think they don't intend to do so.

Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
send them on their first solo, or require a re-light? If the former,
it could unintentionally set a poor precedent for students.

Larry Dighera wrote:
>
> Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
> It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
> leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
> send them on their first solo, or require a re-light?

As I recall, mine had me shut down while she got out.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:49:00 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> > wrote in >::
>
>>I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the prop,
>>even if
>>I think they don't intend to do so.
>
> Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
> It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
> leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
> send them on their first solo, or require a re-light? If the former,
> it could unintentionally set a poor precedent for students.
>
>

Mine made me shut down.

Jay B

Jay Beckman wrote:
> Mine made me shut down.

Excellent! Too often when I'm at an airport with my scanner (RHV or SQL
usually) I see a CFI hop out for a student's first solo while the prop is
turning. It makes me want to jump up, run over to the plane, and strangle
the CFI - and I'm really really not a violent person. It is so
irresponsible IMHO. I wonder how many of these prop strike pilots had a CFI
that hopped out while the engine was running. You cannot do things with a
student, and then tell them not to do it - you need to fly and behave like
you want the student to fly and behave (behave == decision making). One day
he'll be flying with his wife, fire up the engine, try taxi, realize he's
left the chocks on. What does he do?

When I solo a student, we taxi to a not busy spot, shutdown, chat about what
we had just done, what he/she should do, how it'll feel different without me
there, sign the papers, emphasize that go-arounds are good, and to go have
fun and fly the numbers. Then I hop out, and the student starts running the
checklist(s) from the engine start. Yes, it costs them an extra $5, but
let's put things into perspective here. [OK, now that I have that pet peeve
off my chest... :)]

Hilton

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message news:%XaJd.3082

> Mine made me shut down.

Ditto. The only exception was when he showed me how to hand-start the prop.

-c

Generally, I leave the engine running, unless some some circumstance
makes it more 'hazardous' than usual (i.e. ice, rain). Approaching or
leaving an aircraft from the rear with a running prop is not inherently
'unusually' dangerous. I explain to my student what I am doing, and
why. I tell him that I shut off the engine if somebody who *isn't* a
pilot, mechanic, or experienced jumper is entering or leaving the
plane, but if it is one of the above, then I assume they have enough
understanding and experience to manage any dangers that might be
lurking.

It's like hand-propping a plane. It isn't 'unusually' dangerous when
performed by somebody who knows what they are doing, but isn't
something I'd let somebody who *wasn't* a pilot or mechanic do. And if
I trust my student to have the judgement to safely fly his family
halfway across the country, then I trust him to use reasonably
judgement in this kind of situation as well.

Cheers,

Cap

Larry Dighera wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:49:00 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> > wrote in >::
>
> >I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the
prop, even if
> >I think they don't intend to do so.
>
> Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
> It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
> leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
> send them on their first solo, or require a re-light? If the former,
> it could unintentionally set a poor precedent for students.

> wrote in message ...
> A 172 with the high wing makes stumbling into the prop while exiting the
> plane fairly easy.
>At least easier than a low wing. I have exited low wing planes with the
> engine running on a few occasions and felt safe. Of course I never
> walked past the trailing edge of the wing. Would not attempt this on a
> hi wing tho.....
>
> j
>
J, I don't really know what kind of high wing your talking about.
The Cessna's that I'm familiar with are not that east to step out of and
walk into the prop.
First you have the door that makes you step back away from the prop.
Second you have the landing gear that makes you step further back from the
prop.
Third you have the wing spar that gets in the way of a clear path to the
prop.

Now on a low wing I can climb down forward of the wing if I choose with no
obstacles to
keep me from doing so, or climb back up on the low wing from the front of
the wing.
Now if I should stumble forward while getting down or backward while getting
up, I would
end up right into the prop.

Now that should end the Low-wing vs. High-wing safety issues.

The real point here is that you should stay away from any running engines
(Prop or Jet).
Even car engines are dangerous places to get next to while running.

David (KORL)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 at 18:32:26 in message
et>, Hilton
> wrote:
>When I solo a student, we taxi to a not busy spot, shutdown, chat about what
>we had just done, what he/she should do, how it'll feel different without me
>there, sign the papers, emphasize that go-arounds are good, and to go have
>fun and fly the numbers. Then I hop out, and the student starts running the
>checklist(s) from the engine start. Yes, it costs them an extra $5, but
>let's put things into perspective here. [OK, now that I have that pet peeve
>off my chest... :)]

When I had lessons many years ago, it always amazed me (it also made me
very careful) that my instructor, from day 1, put his life in my hands
by putting me at the controls while he hand propped the engine. He gave
clear instructions but I set the throttle while he turned the engine
over, then I set things for a start and switched on at the call. If the
engine had a miss-start I did as I was told again!

When I soloed he got out of the aircraft on the other side of the field
with me already lined up for take off (a grass field) with the engine
running, and walked back while I flew my circuit.

Your method was better, but I finished up extremely wary of turning
props.

Oh, I should have mentioned that the engine had no starter anyway.
--
David CL Francis

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 at 06:57:38 in message
. com>,
" > wrote:

>This reminds me of a time when I was a kid and watched a friend of mine
>stick his fingers into the prop swath of a model airplane. The prop cut
>his finger to the bone. I asked him what happened, and he said "I guess
>I just forgot it was there because I couldn't see it, and then just
>reached in to adjust the idle screw"

Putting your fingers into the prop on models is not uncommon. Many years
ago when there were only two of us at the flying site the other guy did
this and I had to drive him to the nearest hospital.

I had my own rules:

1. Keep your head out the plane of the prop disc, especially if
running at high power.
2. Keep all of you behind the plane of the disc when making
adjustments to the mixture.
3. Only move very slowly.

If you move your fingers slowly and from behind and they inadvertently
enter the prop disc, then you may only receive a slight bruise and a
fright as the blades will tend to throw your fingers back out.


--
David CL Francis

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:06:54 GMT, David CL Francis
> wrote:

>If you move your fingers slowly and from behind and they inadvertently
>enter the prop disc, then you may only receive a slight bruise and a
>fright as the blades will tend to throw your fingers back out.

Likely. I gave myself a bad brush burn at the base of my thumb by
slowly letting it drift into a 14x6" prop from behind. I can still
the scar in the right light and with my reading glasses on. It's
a little reminder to me of how not to keep my hands intact. :o(

Marty

Hey guys, I'm sorry I posted the anecdote below in this thread.
I forgot which group I was reading. My story applies to RC
models, not full-scale. Mea culpa.

Marty

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:06:54 GMT, David CL Francis
> wrote:

>If you move your fingers slowly and from behind and they inadvertently
>enter the prop disc, then you may only receive a slight bruise and a
>fright as the blades will tend to throw your fingers back out.

Likely. I gave myself a bad brush burn at the base of my thumb by
slowly letting it drift into a 14x6" prop from behind. I can still
the scar in the right light and with my reading glasses on. It's
a little reminder to me of how not to keep my hands intact. :o(

Marty

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:06:54 GMT, David CL Francis
> wrote:

>When I had lessons many years ago, it always amazed me (it also made me
>very careful) that my instructor, from day 1, put his life in my hands
>by putting me at the controls while he hand propped the engine

This is still routine, and it still amazes me.

Personally, if someone asks me for a prop, I do the job from behind,
just as I do when I'm starting the plane away from my home field.

That way, I might get run over, but that's survivable.

We did have one instructor for a year or two who didn't untie the tail
until she had the engine running. Again, the worst that could have
happened is that the student taxied off without her.

Worse yet, everyone seems to use different language for the calls,
which are made by the propper. I like BRAKES--CRACKED--HOT, because
it's what my first instructor said, and it does sound urgent. The old
timers say BRAKES--CRACKED--CONTACT. And I also hear BRAKES ON AND ON.

Whenever my granddaughter sees someone trying to start a lawnmower or
such, she cries BRAKES--CRACKED--HOT!


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

> Hey guys, I'm sorry I posted the anecdote below in this thread.
> I forgot which group I was reading. My story applies to RC
> models, not full-scale. Mea culpa.

Hey, it's applicable.

I stopped a prop with my index finger on an RC plane, many moons ago. It
was the dumbest thing I've ever done, and those three scars on my knuckle
serve as a permanent reminder that one should never, ever let your attention
wander whilst around spinning propellers.

Even little ones.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com> wrote in message
news:BkYId.5060$BL3.4545@trnddc01...
>
>> disc would not be visible from the back. A 172 with the high wing
>> makes stumbling into the prop while exiting the plane fairly easy. At
>> least easier than a low wing.
>
> Say What???
>
> You climb out of a 172 and the door is between you and the whirly thing.
> Close the door and the wing strut is between you and the whirly thing. You
> are talking about the "Cessna 172," right? You couldn't "stumble into the
> prop while exiting" even if you were totally s###-faced, and three times
> over the legal limit.

This guy is another for the Darwin awards, fancy walking into a propeller

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:ypsJd.28728$EG1.15863@attbi_s53...
>> Hey guys, I'm sorry I posted the anecdote below in this thread.
>> I forgot which group I was reading. My story applies to RC
>> models, not full-scale. Mea culpa.
>
> Hey, it's applicable.
>
> I stopped a prop with my index finger on an RC plane, many moons ago. It
> was the dumbest thing I've ever done, and those three scars on my knuckle
> serve as a permanent reminder that one should never, ever let your
> attention wander whilst around spinning propellers.
>
> Even little ones.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

I did the same thing when I was about 6 years old.

<Sheepish Grin>

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

In article >,
"Dave" > wrote:

> "Casey Wilson" <N2310D @ gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:BkYId.5060$BL3.4545@trnddc01...
> >
> >> disc would not be visible from the back. A 172 with the high wing
> >> makes stumbling into the prop while exiting the plane fairly easy. At
> >> least easier than a low wing.
> >
> > Say What???
> >
> > You climb out of a 172 and the door is between you and the whirly thing.
> > Close the door and the wing strut is between you and the whirly thing. You
> > are talking about the "Cessna 172," right? You couldn't "stumble into the
> > prop while exiting" even if you were totally s###-faced, and three times
> > over the legal limit.
>
> This guy is another for the Darwin awards, fancy walking into a propeller
>
>

I went out for my 2nd or 3rd flying lesson and was waiting in the FBO
for my CFI to show up. A 172 arrived and taxied to the fuel pumps, I
stepped out to watch. The aircraft (two occupants) came to a stop with
the engine running. The pilot got out, ducked under the strut and
walked into the back of the prop. It cut him into 4 distinctly seperate
pieces.

I'm cautious around propellors, but I "hot load" passengers as a normal
part of my day.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

Not to worry...

I am a member of this club as well.....

Dave


On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:14:40 -0700, "Jay Beckman" >
wrote:

>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>news:ypsJd.28728$EG1.15863@attbi_s53...
>>> Hey guys, I'm sorry I posted the anecdote below in this thread.
>>> I forgot which group I was reading. My story applies to RC
>>> models, not full-scale. Mea culpa.
>>
>> Hey, it's applicable.
>>
>> I stopped a prop with my index finger on an RC plane, many moons ago. It
>> was the dumbest thing I've ever done, and those three scars on my knuckle
>> serve as a permanent reminder that one should never, ever let your
>> attention wander whilst around spinning propellers.
>>
>> Even little ones.
>> --
>> Jay Honeck
>> Iowa City, IA
>> Pathfinder N56993
>> www.AlexisParkInn.com
>> "Your Aviation Destination"
>>
>
>I did the same thing when I was about 6 years old.
>
><Sheepish Grin>
>
>Jay Beckman
>PP-ASEL
>Chandler, AZ
>

The whole thought literally makes me sick to my stomach.
Joking about "Darwin Awards" here is annapropriate.
Those award require exceptional stupidity.
What happened here is a matter of carelessness or pure accident.

I'm sure these folks family don't appreciate the thought of calling
them Darwin Award recipients - these folks are bright enough to
earn a pilot's license.

If I were unfortunate enough to see an accident like this, I'm sure it would haunt
me for the rest of my life.

"Dale" > wrote in message
...

<snip>
> The pilot got out, ducked under the strut and
> walked into the back of the prop. It cut him into 4 distinctly seperate
> pieces.

Oh dear Lord. That had to be terrible to see.

-Trent

In article >,
"Trent Moorehead" > wrote:

> "Dale" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> <snip>
> > The pilot got out, ducked under the strut and
> > walked into the back of the prop. It cut him into 4 distinctly seperate
> > pieces.
>
> Oh dear Lord. That had to be terrible to see.

It certainly put a damper on the day. Within a few weeks I also watched
a J-3 spin in just after takeoff killing the CFI and student. I have no
doubt that flying can be dangerous. I think it's helped to keep me
alive.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

My instructor (a 78-year-old veteran with many thousands of hours) just
climbed out. After my first solo circuit, I was horrified to see him walk
in between the wing and the prop (Cherokee) to tell me through the pilots'
window to make another two circuits. He was very careful, but it still
scared me more than my first solo :-) My personal rule is always to shut
down if there is anyone getting in or out. I've even shut down when someone
was nearby on the ramp and they didn't look like they knew what they were
doing.

There was a ground person killed at Newark last year. She walked up to pull
the chocks so a plane could depart, and just walked into the prop.

When I worked at the Upstate Medical Center in Syracuse a few years ago, the
National Guard brought in a soldier who had walked into the tail rotor of a
helicopter. His face (all the soft tissue) had been sliced cleanly off. An
hour later a jeep arrived with a couple of guardsmen with something wrapped
carefully in a towel. They told the medical staff that someone had found
his face on the ramp and were wondering if the surgeons could re-use it!
Too long without circulation to be viable, but the story sure made the
rounds at the hospital. The guy lived, but required a LOT of reconstructive
surgery.

I'm really obsessive about propeller safety as a result.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:%XaJd.3082$av.2944@fed1read01...
> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:49:00 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> > > wrote in >::
> >
> >>I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the prop,
> >>even if
> >>I think they don't intend to do so.
> >
> > Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
> > It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
> > leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
> > send them on their first solo, or require a re-light? If the former,
> > it could unintentionally set a poor precedent for students.
> >
> >
>
> Mine made me shut down.
>
> Jay B
>
>